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| epoxy, shellac and KTM9 http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=2369 |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:40 am ] |
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Does anyone have any experience apply shellac over or under epoxy and then applying KTM9 over that? Mike Doolin's instructions say to never put shellac over or under epoxy cause they won't stick to each other. My experience has been different. I have applied shellac over ZPOXY and then KTM9 over that without any problems. Could it be that Mike Doolin had different results cause he used a different brand of epoxy and added silica to it? |
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| Author: | Jerry Hossom [ Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:45 am ] |
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It's very likely that if there is any wax in the shellac, epoxy won't bind to it. |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:02 am ] |
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robbie, in my experience, shellac will stick fine to epoxy but not the other way around. |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:44 pm ] |
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You know, Robbie, I ran into this same snag when reading through Doolin's instructions, and frankly was skeptical. It was enough, however, to cause me to back away from KTM-9'ing a guitar for the first time, and to french polish it instead. Why, because I had already put a shellac wash over the entire guitar, and I was planning to fill the pores next with System III epoxy prior to applying the KTM-9. Not wanting to have to sand off all the shellac, I just french polished it. However, I have on several occasions used epoxy as a spot filler over shellac (superblonde, dewaxed), and I have never yet had a problem with the epoxy not adhering to the shellac. Granted, I was only spot filling, but when sanding or scraping down the excess epoxy, if it wasn't going to adhere, I would have noticed this, and I noticed nothing of the sort. I too look forward to reading more of what others here have to say about this. Best, Michael |
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| Author: | Steve Spodaryk [ Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:56 pm ] |
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My one (and only) epoxy pore fill was on ziricote. I used the 5 minute System-3, thinned slightly with alcohol. I worked quickly, on fairly small areas and when cured, sanded back to bare wood. I sealed with Zinsser Seal Coat (100% superblond, dewaxed shellac) and then nitrocellulose lacquer over that. No problems - but I intentionally sanded back to bare wood rather than leaving a thin coat of epoxy on the wood. Other than the downside of working with epoxy, this was one of the best pore-filling experiences I've had. Looks great, very fast, little/no shrinkage and sanded easily. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:13 pm ] |
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That kind of has been my experience folks, shellac can be used as a seal coat between zpoxy and KTM9, or any other finish for that matter. I just wanted to see if others were getting the same results. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:06 pm ] |
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I used shellac as a wash coat on a guitar under KTM-9. The finish seperates from the shellac. Now granted, I sprayed the shellac, and didn't sand it back at all, so it was a nice slick surface without much mechanical bond. That may be where the problem lies. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:30 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Don Williams] I used shellac as a wash coat on a guitar under KTM-9. The finish seperates from the shellac. Now granted, I sprayed the shellac, and didn't sand it back at all, so it was a nice slick surface without much mechanical bond. That may be where the problem lies. [/QUOTE] was it dewaxed? |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:43 am ] |
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Yes....dewaxed from LMI. The good stuff. Supposedly. I seriously think it's a lack of mechanical bond issue more than anything. That said, I have a guy near me that sprays nitro for $250 and does a decent job. I have to touch it up a little bit on the buffer, but for $25 it's a good deal. He sprays McFadden's vinyl sealer & nitro. Looks great. And it's a lot easier than doing it myself! Farm it out I say! I can be doing better things with my time. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:04 am ] |
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I use Zpoxy finishing resign for filler. Zinnser's 100% wax free Seal Coat as a sealer and KTM9 finish with no issues. I lightly sand the Zpoxy with 400p prior to applying the seal coat and lightly sand the seal coat with 400p prior to spraying KTM9, being sure not to sand through either. You will have an issue if you try to apply epoxy over the shellac, but I have never had an issue with applying wax free shellac over the epoxy. or any issues with the KTM9 adhearing to the shellac. |
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